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All About SHUDRAS n related issues Topics in Hinduism

1 points | Post submitted by suyash95 5 days ago | 12 comments | viewed 39 times

Were Shudras oppressed n kept as slaves in Indian Society


  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    SHUDRA OCCUPATIONS - Potters

    , CArpenters

    Clothes Sellers

    Designers

    Bangle Makers

    OIl-Makers

    Flour Makers

    Salt Makers

    Sugar Makers

    Tea Makers

    Farmers

    Fisherman

    Road Workers

    Leather Products Makers

    Porter

    boat man

    Art Makers

    MAgicians

    Road Makers

    Weavers

    Brassware Makers

    Barbers

    Tailors

    Civil Workers

    Land Ploughers

     

    Mudpot Makers

    Cotton Makers

    CArpenters

    Vegetable n Fruit Sellers

    Food n Grain Sellers

    Glass Makers

    Metal pot Makers

    Washerman

    Woodcarvers

    Work Box Makers

    Bangle Makers

    coconut Leaf Knitters

    Workers at MEat Shop

    Spice Sellers

    Fisherman

    Singers

    Painters

    Dancers

    Musicians

    Sudras are the best among the 4 varnas as they are the bravest & purest"

    - 2 inscriptions dated 14th century CE, Andhra Pradesh

     

    "Families in what was theoretically the lowest category, had the greatest degree of actual political power in Andhra, despite their humble ancestry."

     

    Source:

    Cynthia Talbot - Precolonial India in Practice- society, Region, and Identity in Medieval Andhra (2001).

     

    Proud Sudràs: A Short Thread

     

     

     

    This is Akkalapundi Grant of Singha Nikaya, a South King. 

    The Text 5,6,7 of the Inscription states- ]

     The three castes, (viz.) the Brahmanas and the next (Kshatriyas and Vaishyas), were produced from the face, the arms and the thighs of the Lord (Isvara); and for their support was born the fourth caste from His (i.e., Isvara's) feet.

     

     

    That this caste is more pure than those (other three) is self-evident for verily this caste was born along with the (river) Bhagirathi, (i.e. the Ganges [which springs from Vishnu's foot], the purifier of the three worlds. 

     

     The members of this caste are eagerly attentive to their duties, not wicked pure minded, and are devoid of passion and other such blemishes; (they) ably boar all the burden of (protecting) the earth by helping those born in the kingly caste(Kshatriya)

     

    Source- Epigraphica Indica Vol XIII Page Number- 259 

     

     K.S. Lal quotes an inscription, dated AD 1345, in which the Reddi dynasty of Andhra describes how after the elimination of the Kshatriya defenders, the duty of defending cows and Brahmins fell on the Shudras, "born of the feet of Vishnu"; the first independent Reddi king, Vema

     

    "restored all the agraharas of Brahmanas, which had been taken away by the wicked Mleccha kings" [1]

    Another inscription for the same dynasty proudly proclaims Vema's birth from "the victorious fourth varna", which "sprang from the feet of Vishnu", 

     

     Which ruled "the remainder of the territory once ruled by the dwijas [before the Muslim conquest]", and describes how his first son Anna-Vota gave agraharas to the Brahmins and how his second son Anna-Vema freed the country of the "crowd of enemies",

     

    and used his wealth to sponsor the "men of learning"[2]

     It seems that the Shudras took it as a proud duty to defend the country against the Muslims and uphold the Brahminical culture.

     

    Sources- 

     [1]- J Ramayya: "Madras Museum plates of Vema", in Epigraphica Indica, vol.VIII (ASI 1981), p.9; v.9-12; quoted by K.S. Lal: Growth of Scheduled Tribes, p.98. Agrahara: land grant to Brahmins,

    [2]- E. Hultzsch: "Vanapalli plates of Anna-Vema", in Epigraphica Indica, vol.III (ASI 1979), pp.64-5, v.5, 12, 16, 20.

     

     

     

     

    All the professions involved in building and construction belong to Sudras only.

    The five most powerful economic castes known as the Vishvakarma in North India and Kammalar in South India) were Sudras. In South India they actually competed with the Brahmins in social status.

    Kammalar is a generic term that comprises the communities of Kannar (brass-workers), Kollar (blacksmiths), Tattar (goldsmiths), Tatchar (carpenters) and Kartatchar (sculptors).

    The sthapatis who are the temple architects and Icon-makers are Sudras.

    So all the temples were built and maintained by Sudras.

     

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    Since I’m a Shudra, I can’t read/study the Vedas . So would I be aloud to hear Srila Prabhupādas purports in his books which sometimes references the Vedas, as well as other books that aren’t Vedas but make references?

    This seems like a troll question - meant to stir up conflict.

    You are living in the 21st century, you can read and study whatever you want. Since you can access Quora you would also be able to use Swami Googleananda and source what ever you want to read or study.

    You can walk into any book store in India and purchase the entire 4 Vedas in your own language and read them at your leisure. You can listen to any amount of lectures on you tube and can walk into any hall where religious discourses are being given and no one will ask you who you are.

    Here’s another secret - YouTube has hundreds of Videos of Vedic Chanting by learned pandits - you don’t need anyone’s permission to listen to them, record them and even learn them - you are not even required to enter your age and gender!!! WOW!! How modern and liberating!!!

    And here’s another secret! There is no monitoring committee or secret thought-police that will come to your home and arrest you for breaking the secret Caste-control Act of 500 BCE.

    Remember another secret teaching - the only limits you are subjected to in spiritual knowledge, are those you impose upon yourself.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    The majority of Hindus are Sūdras. “Upper” and “lower” caste-status is a social vice and has in fact no religious sanction whatsoever - according to any so-called author of the “caste-system” Manu the magnificent.



    HOW SUDRAS WERE MALIGNED -

    Duryodhana says that shūdra-s from Bharukaccha (modern day Bharuch) gave many lavish gifts worthy of Brāhmaṇa-s to Yuddhisthira. They must have been very wealthy, for they gave:1) Gandharan horses2) Ranku antelope skins3) 100,000 slave girls from Karpasika

    शतं दासीसहस्राणां कार्पासिकनिवासिनाम् श्यामास्तन्व्यो दीर्घकेश्यो हेमाभरणभूषिताःशूद्रा विप्रोत्तमार्हाणि राङ्कवान्यजिनानि चबलिं कृत्स्नमादाय भरुकच्छनिवासिनः उपनिन्युर्महाराज हयान्गान्धारदेशजान्

    "The Shudras living in Bharuach gave as tribute 100,000 slave girls of the karpasika country - with their dark complexion, long hair and decorated with gold ornaments. They also gave horses born in Gandhara & hides of the Ranku antelope. They gave gifts worthy of brahmins"

    We can also see from this that historically, some Shudra groups were quite wealthy. Rich artisans, manufacturers, builders etc.

    The British used textual narratives as "scriptures" which were deterministic of society, even though actual society was quite different. Those became narratives. Those narratives led to the colonial gaze.This gaze was opaque to reality. It would ignore reality that did not fit these descriptions (such as the complex relations between jatis), and force fit reality to confirm to the gaze.

    Example -

    What is written in Scriptures is one thing ,the actual reality on ground can be completely different.

    Eg-By Reading the Texts,one would derive a conclusion that Brahmins are a single homogenous group who wielded great power

    But on ground Brahmins never ever had any concept of

    solidarity. They speak dozens of different languages, have diverse customs , they follow different Vedas and Sūtras, and belong to hundreds of different clans (gotras) - they chant the Vedas differently and their ceremonies are different.

    Even among the Brahmins themselves

    there is a hierarchy of meritocracy - with Vedic Brahmins (ahitagnis) at the top and temple priests (devalaka) at the bottom - actually funeral priests (apara-prayogis - mahapatras) and even lower. They have divisions about inter-dinning and certainly don’t intermarry.

    They have sectarian differences and even intra-sectarian differences such that

    Mahapatra Brahmins were considered as untouchable by all castes even by the untouchables themselves.

    The Texts-Smritis n DS dont mention all of that.Texts in the Hindu tradition are not always prescriptive and many times are descriptive, they capture the practices of some communities.

    Dharmashastras which is both descriptive in some regards and prescriptive in others. This is

    my point , that there is a vast storehouse of literature on the complexity of this topic. It captured and discussed the gamut of human actions

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    SUDRAS ENTRY INTO TEMPLES

    SUDRAS DENIED ACCESS TO VEDAS



    Non-sense. Acc. to Hindu Texts - every temple festival must include all four varnas and the procession through the streets is to be accompanied by Vedic chanting and of course courtesans dancing. The palanquin of the deity is always carried by Sudras who walk in front of the

     

    Veda chanting Brahmins. Every annual 10 day temple festival must include a procession around the town or village every day. The processional protocol demands that the Vedic Brahmins should follow behind the deity loudly chanting the Sanskrit Vedas for all to hear.

    This protocol has been observed right upto the current day. And the fact is the MAJORITY of attendees at the temple festivals are by de fault Sūdras and women. So there is incontrovertible evidence that for the past 1000 years Sudras have freely listened to the public chanting of

     

    the Vedas. In addition there is the annual adhyayanotsava - a public festival in which daily communal chanting of the Vedas has taken place for ALL to hear and enjoy. So, every temple festival in India has included the public chanting of the Vedas - this is proven by the

    fact that Rāmānujācarya in 1000 AD himself instituted the Pañcarātra procedures in all the major Vaishnava temples bar a few. Similar Things were happening in North before Islamic Invasion took place.

    There is no Historical or any documented evidence of pouring of molten lead in anybody's ears. Think about it- Is pouing molten lead into the ear canal a cheap punishment? Is lead an abundant and cheap metal? There were people called jalladas whose job was to decapitate

    criminals, but have you ever heard about a professional molten lead pourer? The above lead pouring line is taken from Manusmriti The smRti texts are prescriptive texts. This means these are various texts of individual authors who wrote their personal opinion of how things

     

    should be in their time. They are not the law of land , so they were never implemented.The Smritis can say a whole lot of things, but People are failing to understand that “saying things” is not the same as “doing things”. They are entirely wrong that any of the theoretical text

     

    books called Dharmashastras became the “law of the land”. There r countless examples where nobody cared what the Dharmashastras said, and did what their tradition was. Smriti writers were similar to Jurisprudence scholars suggesting various ways of making law and implementing

    them. Acceptance of those theories was in the hands of kings .

     

     

     

     

    Non-Brahmins especially Shudras were denied access to study of Vedas -This is an age old Marxist propaganda mentioned even in our NCERT n History Books. Analyzing this in full depth First Let us take some context - The Vedas are deeply mystical texts in the form of archaic

     

    poetry and are extremely difficult to understand, one cannot do justice to them without the guidance of a guru. Any person who tries to read them will find them extremely boring unless you sit at the feet of an expert teacher and learn them one by one - maybe 12 years it will

     

    take to simply learn even one. The essence of the Vedas is the metaphysical teaching which they impart but they do so in very archaic language hidden in allegories and metaphors known as “Sandhya-bhāṣa”. So without an expert the Vedas are simply boring gibberish .

     

    Buy n try to read them ,one will get my point . The Vedas have no use for the average person and can neither enhance their lives or teach them any useful information. Only the Hindu priests have any practical use for the Vedas. The majority of Hindu priests today are simply

     

     

    ritual technicians with little or no formal study and mostly don’t even know Sanskrit or the meaning of the mantras they are reciting.

     

    It took 12 years of arduous study to complete the study of one Veda - the life span in those days - was average 40 - 50 years, they also had to learn Sanskrit, Grammar, exegesis, philosophy etc. - For vast majority of population -they did not have facility for this.

     

    All they had time for was to learn their own profession and apply to do their daily maintenance. The ancient sages distilled the teaching of the Vedas for the common people and presented them in the entertaining and engaging stories, narratives and conversations imbedded in the

     

    Puranas and Itihasas. All the lessons of the Vedas are given in the stories of the Puranas which every illiterate peasant could listen to at the festivals. No need for the arduous and taxing discipline required to study Vedas. However some Individuals did make the effort.

     

    But what is the use of reading Vedas? other Varnas apart from Shudras were “compelled” to study the Vedas. The Artisans/workers were not “compelled” to study them as they must have been preoccupied with their respective trades/professions and studying Vedas was a time consuming

     

    and intensive affair. However, there was no reason that they cannot study the Vedas. There are many examples where Workers/Artisans who have become great Rishis/Maharishis. A person needs to approach a Brahmin and ask him to teach Vedas. Remember The Brahmins were focused on

     

     

    their own practice (ācāram) and affairs, never caring what the others were doing unless they came into their ghettos (agrahārams). And most Hindus never listen to what the priests have to say anyway! the vast majority of people simply follow custom and tradition to the degree

     

    that they can negotiate the complexities of daily life to their satisfaction. Thos rare individual that were dissatisfied by their academic condition would seek out a guru and humbly request teaching. The gurus would invariably test the prospective disciple to assess their

     

    worthiness and readiness to receive the teaching and then would do the needful. Writing was only developed in India and in World also in about 300 - 200 BCE. The entire sacred literature - i.e. Vedas had been transmitted orally for thousands of years before then.

     

    The primary function of the Brahmins was to learn the Vedas by heart and to transmit them to their disciples in an unbroken and perfect succession. So they were like walking libraries containing the entire culture in their heads. There were no Printing Presses to print Vedas in

     

    large numbers and distribute to everyone for study.They were hand -written on Palm Leaves. In order to be the custodians and living vehicles of the Vedas they had heavy responsibilities and duties imposed on them .As national cultural treasures they were to be protected and

     

    given special privileges. If they neglected the study of the Vedas they were to be deprived of their privileges and treated as commoners. So the Marxist theory of Shudras being denied access to Vedas has to be reinterpreted as they were not interested in learning Vedas.

     

    Learning Vedas cannot gurantee anybody a secure livelihood n job in those days . Curiously, the narrative today is that Hindu priests kept people away from learning religion! it's such a funny allegation. Shudra is the purest expression of svadharma and the only one who can get

     

    a regular salary or earn a living on their talent. A shudra is thus a regular citizen. If a Shudra doesn't want to engage in farming or trade(Vaishya) , doesnot want to enagage in Fighting or train as Kshatriya ,what can anybody do about that.

     

    The teaching of Vedas was only available to a small section of society. Using todays’s model in which historically more people attend university than 100 years ago - still what is the percentage of people attending university? Teachers and lecturers only have power over their

     

    students - not society at large - Would a riksha-walla or chai-walla today will be concerned about the views of Jordan Peterson? Similarly ,commoners would not be interested in views n opinions of Brahmins .

     

    The Renaissance in Europe did not come from the "masses" of equal,classless people. The Medicis weren't Buddhists, neither were the Spanish royalty who commissioned explorations, and neither were the scientists we celebrate from India from Aryabhata to Varahamihira to Brahmagupta

     

    to Panini(heck, they were all Brahmins!)The many inventions in India, Egypt, China and so on likewise never came from the masses. Education was the happy hunting ground of a few by virtue of privilege and money (in the form of caste or royalty or aristocracy or simply money).

     

    What we consider education today was a luxury pretty much upto the early 20th century. Illiteracy was the rule rather than the exception. Those were the days of subsistence, when activities were carried out eking a livelihood ranging from agriculture to commerce.

     

    viz -The first complete printed edition of Buddhist PALI Canon was published in Burma in 1900, in 38 volumes and It was still not widely accessible before 1960 . Same with QURAN n BIBLE and other Religious Texts, Nobody was interested in acquiring this knowledge as People were

     

    busy in satisfying their survival needs , There was no Modern Education This is also indicated by Maslow's hierarchy. You need to satisfy the bottom tiers before you move up (esteem) and before Industrial Revolution in 18 century,most people were busy satisfying their Basic

     

    needs -living on survival mode What will hectic learning of Vedas gurantee- in those times or Why will any person want to learn Vedas- 1 -They have no practical guidance on how to live a meaningful Life ,they do not have any Scientific information



     

     

    2- Learning n Mastering Vedas would not have guranteed any secure job in those days like Study of Engineering,Doctor,Finance,Law etc do in today's world. 3- They cannot grant anybody Moksha-ultimate purpose of Hinduism

     

    So the Marxist theory of Shudras being denied access to Vedas has to be reinterpreted as they were not interested in learning Vedas.

     

    The Vedas have been in print today and available for public consumption since the invention of the printing press. The Vedas are now in the Public Domain . They are available in digital library and on line for everyone to read n study

     

    So where is the problem-Presentism . The greatest error of modern critics is “presentism”. In literary and historical analysis, presentism is the anachronistic introduction of present-day ideas,values and perspectives into depictions or interpretations of ancient works -

     

    they need to be analysed within their context and not through a modern lens . One needs to understand the texts in context and in comparison to similar texts.

     

    Eg- PRIVILEGE Privilege of Modern Era cant be compared to privilege of primitive age - who is more privileged,a man 600 years ago ,who has 6 servant to give him air with a big cloth fan or a guy who has A.C. today ? Life was hard in Old World.People spent their daily

     

    activities in collecting water,arranging n preparing for food and other basic necessities. There were no rapid communication n transportation methods,communities were close-knit n exclusionary. One cannot imagine a life without smartphones today.. and people comment about

     

    times back then... when water lose by itself was a luxury... using pompous phrases like " basic human rights" n Oppression,suppression

     

    Nowadays education is open to all - caste/Jaati is irrelevant to education and modern careers. People can choose whatever career they want and progress in that profession according to their merit.

     

     

     

    It must always be remembered that there were hundreds of Vedic Acharyas and Vedic schools - they did not all agree on every point. For every 3 Indians you meet they will have at least 5 different opinions! It has always been thus on the sub-continent. The argumentative Indian is axiomatic Hinduism accepts differences of opinion, belief, practice and is accommodating of diversity and inclusivity So what is UPANAYANAM? It is a ceremony in which a youth is formally initiated into Vedic studies He is taught the gāyatri mantra

    and promises to protect the Spiritual treasure of the brahmins i.e. the Vedas. What does the Veda say about Spiritual Learning? yathemāṁ vācaṁ kalyāṇīṁ avadāni janebhyaḥ | brahma rājanyābhyāṁ śūdrāya caryāya ca svayāya caraṇāya ca || Just as I have revealed this

    salutary auspicious teachings to all humans, so should you. I have revealed the Vedic truth to brahmins, kshatriyas, sudras and Aryas, to personal servants and to the lowest of servants (araṇāya) also. (Sukla Yajur Veda 26:2) So according to this verse everyone is entitled to

     

    and eligible for Spiritual Knowledge. vidyate caturthasya varṇasya agnyādheyam ityeke Some say that all four varnas are eligible to consecrate the 3 sacred fires (Bhāradvāja śrauta sutra 5:2.8.) Bhāradvāja clearly says that some acharyas are of the opinion that all four

    Varnas can establish and consecrate the 3 sacred fires and therefore must have access to Upanayana and vedic learning in order to do this.

     

    dānaṁ yajño'tha śuśrūṣā dvijātināṁ tridhā mayā | vyākhyātaḥ śūdra dharmo'pi jīvikā kāru-karmajā | advad dvijāti śuśrūṣā poṣaṇam kraya

    vikrayaiḥ |

    The religious duties of a Sudra are works of charity and the performing of yajñas n serving others. They earn a living from being artisans, tradesmen, craftsmen etc. from service professions, from nurturing and from selling n buying. (Markaṇḍeya Purāṇa 25:7-8)

     

    So here again the Sudras are given entitlement to perform yajñas which requires initiation and some level of spiritual education. The way these teachings have actually been applied is through the popularization of the Puranas through which all the knowledge contained in the

     

    Vedas is transmitted through the medium of anecdotes, stories, discourses and conversations

    YES. They have been exempt from all the rules, regulations and laws which r only applicable to DWIJAS except from civil n criminal law.

     

     na śūdre pātakam kiñcin na tasya saṁskāram arhati | nāsya adhikāro dharme’sti na ca dharmāt pratiṣedhanam ||

     

    A Sudra cannot commit an offence causing loss of caste (pātaka), and he is not obligated to receive the sacraments; he has no obligation to (fulfil) the sacred law (yet) there is no prohibition against (his fulfilling certain portions of) the law. (Manu 10:126) A Sudra cannot cause any offence or transgression which would result in loss of Dwijatva because Sudratva is already the default status of everyone. Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas have been initiated by the process of Upanayanam, have to study the Vedas and perform Sandhya vandana daily otherewise they will

     

    loose their status. Loss of Dwijatva is the greatest fear of the twice-born, since they are required to undergo all the sacraments (samskāras) again and be reinitiated at great cost. There are 16 Sacraments for Kshatriyas and Vaishyas and 40 for Brahmins which are obligatory.

     

    A Sudra has no need of them for them they are optional and voluntary All the other rules and regulations n commands are optional n a Sudra is not prohibited from choosing which ones he or she wishes to follow and which not. A sudra can take Dwijatva status whenever he wants

     

    Severest restrictions were placed on those who have acquired status of DWIJAS(Like Public Service). Sudras were completely free of all such restrictions and were free to eat, drink, and travel about as they pleased.

     

    One of the misconceptions of the Varna-Jaati system is/was that the hierarchy was based on economic power. It was not,The Brahmins in fact were always an economically disadvantaged community because they could only live by teaching, performing rituals and by begging/charity.

     

    The Kshatriyas earned through wages and taxes,the Vaishyas through business and mercantile activities and the Shudras were land owners, farmers, skilled artisans and craftsmen and musicians who were highly respected and commanded very large incomes, as well as being the menial workers. The building of many temples and charitable foundations were commissioned by the Jaatis engaged in Shudra occupation, the wealthy landowners were Shudras actually employed Brahmins in their service.

     

    This was a division of powers-Religious/Political/Financial/Production n Land Owning Powers betn Brahmin,Kshatriyas,Vaishyas n Shudras for proper funct of Society. The Dharma Shastras clearly state that a Brahmin should never give advice to Sudras nor tell them what they should or should not do - they should be left alone to do their own thing (Vasistha 18:24) Sudras were free from all the rules and restrictions and through their Jaati syndicates created their own laws and regulations

     

    or should not do - they should be left alone to do their own thing (Vasistha 18:24) Sudras were free from all the rules and restrictions and through their Jaati syndicates created their own laws and regulations

    there were spiritual acharyas throughout India which were killed or they escaped during Islamic rule Categories of acharyas The acharyas are described as belonging to one of two categories;

    1. anuvrtti-prasanna-acharya — those who have to be sought out and persuaded with much perseverance to impart their knowledge. It is only after rigorous testing of the prospective disciples that they consent to teach. Most of the acharyas prior to Ramanuja were of this category.

    2. kripa-matra-prasanna-acharya — these acharyas teach their disciples out of compassion for their plight as ignorant and lost Selves, and are constantly seeking an opportunity to impart their knowledge, and are willing to teach anyone who will but listen. Ramanuja and most of the acharyas who came after him are of this class.

    

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    PROFESSION OF SHUDRAS -

    This is Colonial era based Marxist reading of Dharmashastras which is indicating freezing of Varnas with positions fixed, The Rot of Anti-Shudra is coming from here,Let us analyze this In a Hindu spiritual context every one who has not been initiated (upanayana) and is not

    observing the disciplines and protocols of an initiate (dvija) is a Shudra. But If Shudras were oppressed,than TANTRA would not have emerged,TANTRA was specifically developed by Shudras. Who are the Shudras - Goldsmiths,silversmiths, blacksmiths,CopperSmiths, Zinc metal workers,

    ·

    stone- masons, Skilled-builders,surgeons,doctors(vaidyas),temple-builders,Carpenters,Artisans,Craftsmen,Sweet confectioners,Grocery owners,Cloth makers,Handloom weavers,Handicraft makers,Ayurvedic HERB sellers, and all rem. producers of fine goods n services etc.

    These controlled the means of production,You mean to say these were oppressed by Brahmins. This is practically not possible. It is ironical also becoz The Shudras payed money to the Brahmins through which they maintained their families n earned livelihood.

     

    Also ,TANTRA was specifically developed by Shudras.There are hundreds of Tantric texts most of which remain untranslated and even unresearched . In the Tantra tradition, there is no varna for the sadhakas. They are classified as Pashu, Veeras and Siddhas, depending on the merits

    of their sadhana. The Tantric literature is no less vast than the Vedic one. Many great men in this tradition were born into Shudra family. The tentacles of this tradition is widespread in many parts of India. In these communities, the Varnasharama is absent .

     

     

     

    SACRED THREAD and SHUDRAS -

    The sacred thread is neither a privilege nor does it belong to Brahmins alone.

    Many communities wearit. Some of them are potters, some of them merchants, some carpenters, someweavers, some warriors, some Valluvars – the priestly class of astronomers fromthe Pariah community and also the Brahmin jatis.

    It is a colonial myth and today it is perpetuated by the academia, media and a strong section of the polity, that the sacred thread is a symbol of Brahmins and so-called Brahminism.

    Then there arepersistent Hindu traditions of Brahmins derived from the fishing community –sometimes presented with a poetic flourish that the sacred thread for theBrahmins were derived from their fishing nets.

    Again, one of the mostsacred and most popular of the Hindu texts, the Srimad Bhagavatam, clearly states that it is when thesociety is depraved that a person gets identified as a Brahmin because of histhread (and not his character).

    While many non-Brahmin communities wear the sacred thread, colonial essentializing of sacred thread as Brahminical symbol has resulted in hate imagery - likening Brahmins to pigs and schemers.

    From the Puranic Parasurama to Sri Ramanuja Acharya to Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati, the sacred thread has been given to any communities desiring to become Brahmins and any individual desiring the sacred thread. It takes enormous amount of ignorance and cultural illiteracy to claim superiority based on the wearing of sacred thread. But such narratives make good marketing.

    The sacred thread declared to be worn by the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, shūdras etc must be worn at times of pūja or mantra incantation""The thread is to be made of cotton (karpāsa). Shūdra-s wear one thread, Vaiśyas were two. Kṣatriyas wear three. Brāhmaṇā wear 7, 5 or 9 th

    Some shUdrAchara texts prescribe a paurANika upanayana for lay sat-shUdras not affiliated with a particular sampradAya.

    Shūdra-s are NOT prohibited from wearing the sacred-thread (yajñopavīta). This is a common misconception as only the vaidika-upanayana is known to most people. Shūdra have upavītādhikāra by āgamika-pramāṇaThe kāmikāgama clearly says that shūdra-s & mixed-castes also wear Janeu

    It is not the same rite as that in the manusmṛti but that's besides the point. The point is the āgamikopavīta rite exists for shaivadīkṣita shūdra-s & anyamiśrajāti.क्षत्रविट्छूद्र जातिनां यदुक्तम् चोपवीतकम्पूजादि मन्त्रकाले तु धार्यन्नो धार्यमेव वाTranslation..+

    The sacred thread declared to be worn by the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, shūdras etc must be worn at times of pūja or mantra incantation""The thread is to be made of cotton (karpāsa). Shūdra-s wear one thread, Vaiśyas were two. Kṣatriyas wear three. Brāhmaṇā wear 7, 5 or 9 threads"

    All varṇa-s can wear it. There are just different upanayana rites. Source: (Kāmika Agama 3.89-90) Recitation of diff mantras are also prescribed to each jāti to wear the mantra. (Kāmika Agama 3.101)

    The lack of honest effort for basic research leads to the mistake that; ‘the prohibition of ‘upanayana’ ceremony means prohibition of education.’Those who commit this mistake, could read about a ceremony called Vidyārambha, which is open to all varṇas

    A detailed description of this ceremony is mentioned in Saṃskāradīpikā, where a typical line which is attributed to Mārkaṇḍeya is explained. The line says that in the ceremony, one is to honour one’s ‘vidyā’ and also one’s ‘vidyāsūtrakāras

    The author says that ‘vidyā’ means the field of study, which includes ‘nyāya’ (logic), ‘vaiśeṣika’, ‘sāṅkhya’ and ‘yoga’ etc. This ceremony is mentioned also in the specific text made regarding Shudras, i.e., Śūdrakamalākara of Kamalākarabhaṭṭa (same verse is mentioned).

    The William Adam’s report (years 1835–38) on the elementary Bengali schools (pp. 137–138, as quoted on page 273 of ‘The beautiful tree’ by Dharampal’), mentions a ceremony where a child is initiated into reading and writing at the age of 5.

    This tradition could also explain the mention of ‘Soodra’ students (also the ‘all other castes’ which may as well include those below them) in the reports of British officials cited in Dharampal’s book ‘The Beautiful Tree

    Claim - so only vedas etc cdnt be learnt without upanayana if i'm not wrong

    Response - It seems that they could be learnt, which is why Aśvaghoṣa in his Vajrasūcī mentions Śūdras who're experts Vedas. Bhṛtakādhyāpakas used to teach Vedas in lieu of fee (as mentioned by Medhātithi in ManuS 3.156). Vācaspatimiśra in his Bhāmatīvyākhyā  on Brahmasūtraśāṅkarabhāṣya (1.3.34) refutes a pūrvapakṣa which says that Śūdras could learn Vedas without upanayana, through studying books. He refutes it by saying that it won't lead to the fruit which the dvijas get after studying Vedas duly via upanayana. The idea of the upavita as a symbol of brahmin exclusivism is mired in sociological and religious ignorance.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    The Veda is not readable, as one might read the bible or other literature.

    They are a collection of ancient poems written in an archaic version of the Sanskrit language and are not meant to be read. They have to be contemplated and the truth in it experienced. Since the compilation now has four volumes and over 20,000 verses, this would be a life long endeavor.

    Those who study the texts take 10–15 years on each volume.

    And what purpose does it serve?

    The idea is to read just enough to get a sense of the divine, and then head out on your own “quest” for that highest reality.

    In fact, the tradition also asserts that these texts should not be read, but only heard from a master!

    The Vedas were never books that could be adulterated and altered and new copies issued - like what Uthman did when he collected and collated all the verses of the Q book and then burned all the other copies - making one official version. The Vedas were kept in the heads of Brahmin families and transmitted orally and learned by heart by their students. Nothing could be added or subtracted unless you gathered all the Brahmins together from the entire sub-continent and made them agree to change or add elements.

     The Puranas and allied literature has been extensively adulterated, added to and corrupted over millennia by Hindu scribes themselves without encouragement from any Muslim ruler. Hence their reliability is always in doubt unless they agree with or expatiate upon something found in the Vedas themselves.

    Shudras Occupations - metal-working, wood-working, agriculture, weaving, architecture etc.

    Vaishyas and Shudras merged into a single Socio-Economic block after GUPTA Period.

    All the professions involved in building and construction belong to Sudras only.

    The five most powerful economic castes known as the Vishvakarma in North India and Kammalar in South India) were Sudras. In South India they actually competed with the Brahmins in social status.

    Kammalar is a generic term that comprises the communities of Kannar (brass-workers), Kollar (blacksmiths), Tattar (goldsmiths), Tatchar (carpenters) and Kartatchar (sculptors).

    The sthapatis who are the temple architects and Icon-makers are Sudras.

    So all the temples were built and maintained by Sudras.

    BRAHMINS were compelled to study Vedas and perform SAMSKARAS in order to maintain their VARNA status to maintain the Knowledge Center intact.

    If you are an initiated dvija then you have to abide by all the rules and regulations of the DS and any lapse requires prāyaścitta and for some lapses even reinitiation is required. If you are a Sudra then there are no rules and regulations and no need for prāyaścitta unless a crime has been committed.

    SHUDRAS WERE ALLOWED UPANAYANAM -

    what is UPANAYANAM?

    ·         It is a ceremony in which a youth is formally initiated into Vedic studies.

    ·         He is taught the gāyatri mantra and promises to protect the Spiritual treasure of the brahmins i.e. the Vedas.

    ·         During this ceremony the youth will take vows - to observe strict discipline, to study the Vedas, to perform daily Sandhya vandana and worship of the fire (samidhā-dānam), to serve his guru, observe chastity, beg for his food.

    So what is done nowadays is an embarrassing charade - because most often the father himself doesn’t know the gāyatri mantra and has never done sandhya and has no idea about the Vedas. The youth himself will only enjoy the ceremony in order to receive gifts and attention and will never fulfill any of the vows he takes.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    Why does Manusmriti ask lead to be melted and poured into the ears of lower caste people even if they hear the Vedas accidentally?

    

    Now if a Sudra listens intentionally to the recitation of the Veda, his ears shall be filled with molten tin or lac. If he recites Vedic texts, his tongue shall be cut out, and if he remembers them, his body shall be split in two. Gautama 12: 4-6

    This verse is probably an interpolation from some caste-nazi because there is no record or evidence that this punishment was ever carried out by any ruler at any time. And during the temple festivals the Vedas were always chanted in front of all castes - even the lowest, from the time the first temples were built - in South India at least.

    In the Panchartra Agama - Isvara Samhita – it states that every temple festival must include all four varnas and the procession through the streets is to be accompanied by Vedic chanting and of course courtesans dancing. The palanquin of the deity is always carried by Sudras who walk in front of the Veda chanting Brahmins.

    Catur vedamayod-ghoṣaiḥ stotra ghoṣa samanvitaiḥ || I.S. 10:363

    [The procession] must be accompanied by the chanting of the Vedas & Prabandhas [Tamil Vedas].

    So for at least the past 1000 years every temple festival in South India has included the public chanting of the Vedas - this is proven by the fact that Rāmānujācarya himself instituted the Pañcarātra procedures in all the major Vaishnava temples bar a few.

    There is also an annual festival called the Adhyayanotsava in Vishnu Temples of the South where a pavilion is setup and the public chanting of the Vedas takes place during the day and the Prabandha (Tamil Vedas) are chanted at night.

    So the historical, epigraphical and traditional customs and procedures would indicate that this notorious verse of Gautama’s is propaganda only.

    Why were Shudras not permitted to read the Vedas?

    Always remember saying things doesnot means doing things .This was just an opinion .Shudras were not (past tense) permitted to read the Vedas for a variety of reasons - lack of literacy and time is one major obstacle.

    Most folks today see the ancient world retroactively through the lens of their current situation instead of doing a mental time-travel thing and putting themselves back in time.

    Life spans were short in them days (40 - 50 years was very old) — and the imperative for most people was to learn a trade and get to work, get married at puberty - have as many kids as possible because 1/3rd of them would die before their first birthday.

    The only way to get an education was to learn the trade of your father and your community.

    To study one Veda it took a full-time study of 12 years ending at age 21. Most commoners were parents of numerous children by then.

    BUT there was a major revolution in 1439 when a German guy invented a printing press - not long after, printed books began appearing in India and in a flash we arrive at the 21st century when all the Vedas and allied literature is now IN PRINT!

    But people always long and pine for the forbidden fruits - we always want what others have (ghar ki murgi dahl barabar!) but when they get access they are deeply disappointed. The same knowledge that is found in the Vedas was always available to Sudras and women through the stories and myths of the Puranas.

    So all of you Quorans who are still pining to study the Vedas they are available on in English for study from here. Rig Veda Index - when you have finished reading Mandala #1 please flick me an email to let me know how you went.

    Yajur Veda with Sanskrit can be had here Taittiriya Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka etc.

    White Yajur Veda with devanagari and English can be had from here - White Yajur-Veda: Vajasaneyi-Samhita (Madhyandina): Frame

    Hindi versions can be found here Buy Rare and Best Selling Books in Hindi from Exotic India.

    Happy study!

    How many non-Brahmin writers and scholars were there prior to the 19th century in India?

    Some of the greatest names in Hindu literature were not born in brahmana families

    Going back to the beginning - the father of Indian Philosophy is Mahidāsa Aitareya who was a non-Brahmin. Born of a Brahmin father and a Sūdri mother - technically known as a Niśāda or Parasara.

    Vyāsa the alleged compiler of the Vedas and Puranas was born out of wedlock from a Sage Parāśara and the adopted daughter of a fisherman - Satyavati and therefore definitely a non-Brahmin - Niśāda.

    Vālmiki the author of the celebrated Rāmāyana was a robber.

    Vidura the wisest man in the world and the counsellor of King Dhritaraṣṭra was a śūdra.

    Viśvamitra was a kṣatriya

    Janaka the greatest rāja-riṣi was a kṣatriya.

    The orator of most of the Parāṇas is one Sūta - a low-caste horse-breeder and chariot-driver.

    Now there were also many others who composed great works in the vernacular I will just mention two, and other respondents will give their local and regional authors.

    Nammālvar was a śūdra who composed 1352 among the 4000 stanzas in the Nalayira Divya Prabandam which are known as the Tamil Veda of the Vaishnavas and are to this day daily chanted in Vishnu temples in the South.

    Kamban was one of the greatest of Tamil poets who composed a version of the Ramayana in Tamil, he was the son of a wealthy farmer.

    Among the other composers of Tamil literature there are many non-Brahmins.



    Origin of Word DALITS -

    You can check there was no such word before 1857 First War of Independence - It is a British Construct . Let us take some Dalit Jaatis

    It is interesting that Mahar and Charamkar Jaatis had full proper regiments in British Indian Army .So the Million dollar question is when were they oppressed. They had lands,money everything granted by British .

    Ambedkar belonging to a Scheduled Caste Status is a recent Creation - by Missionaries and Communists Ambedkar's native Jaati MAHAR sent letters to British claiming their Kshatriya status

    Jaatavs, Pasis and Meena Jaatis sent Letters to British affirming their Kshatriya Status

    There was no existence of Mehtar and Bhangi Jaatis before 10 century Ad. They are creation of ISlamic Rule

    The Valmikis were pushde into Cleaning Occupations forcefully by British .

    Read British Era based Census reports 1871 -1921 to get a clear Picture



    What is it like being a Hindu Shudra?

    

    It is fantastic - we are the majority 90% and our great good fortune is that we are free from all the onerous obligations, and tyrannical rules and regulations that the Dvijas (“Twice-born” - those who have received the sacrament of upanayana) are compelled to follow.

    na śūdre pātakam kiñcin na tasya saṁskāram arhati |

    nāsya adhikāro dharme’sti na ca dharmāt pratiṣedhanam ||

    A Sudra cannot commit an offence, causing loss of caste (pātaka), and he is not required to undergo the (forty obligatory) sacraments; he has no obligation to (fulfil) the sacred ritual law (of the dvijas) but there is no objection to his following all the ethical principles and practices of the Dharma. (Manu 10:126)

    So we are free to eat and drink and enjoy as we please as long as we apply the ethical principles(Dharma). We do not have to offer daily prayers and perform spiritual tasks, we do not have to observe all the rules of purity and traditional social distancing or to study and memorise sacred texts. So in short we have complete religious freedom. (Social freedom is circumscribed by the family and community.)

    Those who undergo the initiation ceremony known as upanayana are obligated to an enormous set of rules and regulations and onerous duties and responsibilities - the non-performance of which generate DEMERIT and cases one to “fall” pātaka.

    So we Sūdras can emulate whatever we want of the higher spiritual practices and disciplines and thereby gain MERIT. But by non-performance or lapsed performance we obtain no demerit.

    dharma ipsavas tu dharmajñāḥ satāṁ vṛttam anuṣṭhitāḥ |

    mantra varjyaṁ na duṣyanti praśaṁsāṁ prāpnuvanti ca ||

    (Sudras) who are desirous to gain merit, and study the Dharma, commit no sin, but gain praise, if they follow the practices of the virtuous - without reciting Vedic mantras. (Manu 10:127)

    In fact we are entitled to the same respect as the Dvijas

    śūdre karmabhiḥ śucibhir devī śuddhātmā vijitendriyaḥ |

    śūdro-pi dvijavat sevya iti brahmābravīt svayam ||

    Even a sudra O Devi that has purified himself by good deeds and has subjugated his senses should be served like a twice-born person, this has been declared by Brahma himself. (M.B. Anusasana Parva 143:48)

    We are the mainstay of society and without us society would collapse. At the moment we are the health-care workers that are putting our lives in danger in order to keep you all alive.

    So being a Sudra is the most laudable status because our privilege is to nurture the society and the environment.

    sa naiva vyabhavat | sa śaudraṃ varnaṃ asrjata pūṣaṇaṃ | iyam vai pūṣā | iyam hīdam sarvaṃ pūṣyati yad idaṃ kiṃ ca || (Brd Aranyaka 1:4:13. )

    He did not flourish, so he created the śūdra order as Pūṣan. Verily this (earth) is Pūṣan the nourisher, for she nourishes everything that is.

    Explanation. Pūṣa is the nourishing aspect of the Sun - the function of nourishing is also associated with the earth so here the Sūdra is identified both with the Sun and the Earth. In the famous Puruṣa Sūkta the Sūdra order represents the feet of society envisaged as a corporate group or one body. In the context of this verse Prajāpati is trying to create the world but nothing works until he creates the Sūdras.

    Workers of the world unite! Hanuman is the patron deity of gyms and body builders.



    Tell a shloka from Manu that you're uncomfortable with. I'll try to convince why it's applicable right nowThe only ones I personally am uncomfortable about are the ones regarding punishment for v4s listening/chanting the vedas,Excellent selection. We'll do this as a 2 parter- 1. historical context and the specific problem that was tackled and lesson learnt; 2. Modern context in applying that lesson. The problem that Manu is solving is the 'impersonation of a brāhmaņa".Ask who can pass off as brAhmaNas,You look at homologous mantra between Paippalada and Shaunaka - one has 'ārya and dāsa' and the other has 'ārya and shudra". The original shudras are none other than our Iranian cousins. They have their 'asura veda' and can pass off as priests for the lay folks. Moreover Their mantras are curses on our devas. This is the equivalent of predatorial/parasitic aggressive mimicry in biological world. Leaving this unchecked is disastrous for the victim.Moreover the brahmana is an officer of the kingdom. Not for nothing from great emperors to small time chieftains invite V1s and settle them. No one bats an eyelid if there's punishment in USA for someone impersonates a cop or an officer of the court.Modern context: who's doing the equivalent of bio-mimicry? Xtian missionaries passing off as fake sadhus, Christian yoga, Christian bharatanatyam..Those who steal our knowledge systems without credit and even seek our destruction. A strong H society would have dealt with this problem especially given that shUdra has changed in meaning from the vedic age to now; the ancient shUdra-s started of inimical to the Arya-s

    

    Why would Iranians want to pass off as brahmanas? You Brahmins are always painting someone else as the villains. Standard tactics :-)12Why not? The have motive, means and opportunities. . We have friendlies too - Iranian maga brāhmaņas who are sun worshippers. Modern ones have syncretized with vaishnavas - they worship Rama as a form of surya.What motive? What do they get impersonating conniving brahmins of India? We all know the 4Vs are based on gunas, and not some ethnic stock :-) What motive do they get impersonating? If brahmins had no political control, had no wealth, lived by teaching and studying Vedas, no farms, not even women....why would they impersonate? Just to get some respect :-) Chepra voy cheppu.No political control is wrong. Also they had 6 jobs - not 2. Learning and teaching. They are authorized to document and teach 'secular sciences' - that's why you see document on prediction of weather patterns for success in harvest to books on music, medicine even poisons,When the rubber meets the road, what is the benefit to impersonate?1 If there's no benefit why did de Nobili try to pass of as a v1 and try to peddle Yeshurveda as late as 1600s?. He wanted to convert. So your cousins......ahem the evil Iranians were trying to convert their evil cousins v1,v2,v2 and v4?

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    Why does Manusmriti say, “If a shudra mentions the name and class of a twice-born contumely [i.e. without proper respect], an iron nail, ten figures long, shall be thrust into his mouth.”?

    Really?Can you provide the chapter and verse please when asking these provocative questions.Tell us why we should even care what some old fellow said 2500 years ago.Why do people love hunting up and bringing to light negative and atrocious verses while deceptively neglecting the gems found in Manu?FOR EXAMPLE2:159. Created beings must be instructed in (what concerns) their welfare without giving them pain, and sweet and gentle speech must be used by one who desires (to abide by) the sacred law.2:161. Let him not, even though in pain, (speak words) cutting (others) to the quick; let him not injure others in thought or deed; let him not utter speeches which make (others) afraid of him, since that will prevent him from gaining heaven.6: 8. Let him be always industrious in privately reciting the Veda; let him be patient of hardships, friendly (towards all), of collected mind, ever liberal and never a receiver of gifts, and compassionate towards all living creatures.

    Who are the Sudras according to Manu and Vedic scriptures?

    What are the sacraments, rituals, and rights denied to them, and what are the duties forced on them?

    Everybody is a Sudra by default and our only duty is service. All of us are engaged in service of some sort or the other. Even if you are a business many you are engaged in serving others. Even politicians are Public Servants. We can do whatever we like - all sacraments and rituals are available to us - you can even do dial-a-priest who will even conduct a virtual puja for you. How much time would you like to spend in ceremonies and rituals? All spiritual knowledge is available in bookshops and on the internet. Lectures on spiritual topics are being provided in abundance - enough hours to occupy the rest of your life. Opportunities for spiritual growth are as many as there are hours in the day. There are annual meditation retreats every one can attend. So why are you living in the 1st century? Why not join us here in 2021 and BE HERE AND NOW! Welcome to the present!

    Manusmriti says the JAATs are Shudras. Then why do they claim to be Aryan?

    I wonder why Sudras are not Aryans?

    Arya simply means “noble” one who follows and practices the lofty and noble teachings of the Veda.

    All four Varnas and all humanity are by definition capable of being “noble” — anyone who has internalized the Dharma and manifests it in their deeds.

    The Veda says kṛtsna jagat ārya kuru — “make the whole world noble!”

    Are Sudras required to follow the Dharma Shastra rules, regulations, and laws?

    NO!

    All the rules, regulations and laws apart from the civil and criminal law are meant only for Dvijas - Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas who have been initiated by the process of Upanayanam, who study the Vedas and perform Sandhya vandana daily.

    All others are exempt - which means the vast majority of Hindus.

    na śūdre pātakam kiñcin na tasya saṁskāram arhati |

    nāsya adhikāro dharme’sti na ca dharmāt pratiṣedhanam ||

    A Sudra cannot commit an offence causing loss of caste (pātaka), and he is not obligated to receive the sacraments; he has no obligation to (fulfil) the sacred law (yet) there is no prohibition against (his fulfilling certain portions of) the law. (Manu 10:126)

    “Loss of caste” is the greatest fear of the twice-born, since they are required to undergo all the sacraments (samskāras) again and be reinitiated at great cost. The fine by the caste-community is to provide a lavish feast for the entire community.

    A Sūdra cannot cause any offence or transgression which would result in loss of caste because Sudratva is already the default status of everyone.

    There are 16 Sacraments for Kshatriyas and Vaishyas and 40 for Brahmins which are obligatory. A Sudra has no need of them but can undergo 10 if he or she so desires - they are optional and voluntary. The two saṁskāras to which they are entitled are marriage and funeral sacraments.

    All the other rules and regulations and commands are optional and a Sudra is not prohibited from choosing which ones he or she wishes to follow and which not. Sudras have complete freedom of choice in the matter and are not guilty of a transgression or offence if they decline to follow them.

    dharma ipsavas tu dharmajñāḥ satāṁ vṛttam anuṣṭhitāḥ |

    mantra varjyaṁ na duṣyanti praśaṁsāṁ prāpnuvanti ca ||

    (Sudras) who are desirous to gain merit, and know (their) duty, commit no sin, but gain praise, if they imitate the practice of the examples of Dharma without reciting Vedic mantras. (Manu 10:127)

    So in this verse Manu says that the more a Sudra follows Dharma and applies himself to spiritual practice - the more esteemed and elevated in status he gains. But Manu’s proviso is that he not recite Vedic Mantras.

    So what actually happens in practice is the Brahmin Purohit (priest) who officiates for a Sudra will recite the Vedic mantras on his behalf. At the commencement of the ceremony there is a statement of appointment

    ācārya tvām vṛṇe - yathā vihitam karma kuru - “I appoint you as my guide - please perform the ceremony according to the protocols.”

    Some from indignation raise the objection “why should a Sudra not recite Vedic mantras?”

    In fact in all my ceremonies I recite the mantras even for Brahmins because none of them have studied Sanskrit nor are the familiar with the Vedic chanting notation so their pronunciation is horrendous!! Some Indian linguistic groups who I will not name torture Sanskrit and make her weep in pain!

    So the recitation of Vedic mantras is only for those who have studied the Vedas.

    each and every Jaatis had their own take on marriage which was governed by Custom & Usage. So some Jaatis were matriarchal, some sanctioned child-marriage and some repudiated it, some allowed serial marriages, some allowed polygamy and some encouraged widow remarriage. Multi-culturalism and Diversity have been the hallmarks of the Varna-Jaati system.

    the difference between Custom and Usage and Dharma Shastra. The former is transmitted through the vernacular and the latter through Sanskrit.

     Swami Tulsidas . One of his most quoted chaupai or verse is “Dhol,ganwar,shudea,pashu,nari,ye sab taaran ke adhikari” -translated as ( so-called lower castes, animals, widows/whores and women are fit only for abuse/chastisement) to justify the misbehavior with the group as mentioned.

    This is Tulsidas’ own opinion - Dharma Shastra strictly forbids hitting a girl or a woman at any time for any reason.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    CHANGING OF VARNAS - People had to transform themselves , There are enough records that show Yogis who transformed themselves into warriors(Kshatriyas)and enlisted as soldiers. The incomparable poet, Banabhatta, in his Harshacharita, narrates a story of how a Yogi cum warrior named Bhairavacharya helped the king Pushpabhuti in war and how he vanquished a supernatural evil force named Srikanta.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 5 days ago | +0 points

    Who were referred as Shudras in India? How they were Casted?

    

    In a Hindu spiritual context every one who has not been initiated (upanayana) and is not observing the disciplines and protocols of an initiate (dvija) is a Shudra. That’s about 98% of the Hindu population.

    Everyone is born a Shudra (there is no caste by birth!!!) and it is through initiation alone (dikṣa) that one acquires the status of “twice-born”, but having acquired this status, one is also subjected to rules, regulations and rituals which one must observe perpetually for the rest of one’s life in order to retain that status. Any lapse in observance requires restoration and rectification (prāyaścitta).

    A Shudra on the other hand, has no ritual obligations and is free to eat, drink and do as he/she pleases, as long as the general code of practice (loka-dharma) is adhered to which is:–

    1.       striving for contentment

    2.       practicing compassion and forgiveness

    3.       striving for self-control

    4.       truthfulness

    5.       abstention from anger and violence

    6.       abstention from dishonesty, stealing and cheating

    7.       observing physical, and striving for mental purity

    8.       monogamy - avoiding all sexual misconduct

    9.       pursuit of knowledge [concerning the world]

    10.   pursuit of wisdom [concerning the Ultimate Reality]

    This is the highest moral code applicable to every society and all humankind. One is assured of spiritual progress and the Divine Grace if one follows this code (Manu 7;92) regardless of one's theological or philosophical convictions or lack thereof.

    In the astrological context, which determines a person’s character, everyone born under the rising signs (lagna) of Gemini, Libra and Aquarius is characterized as Shudra. A Shudra in this context is one who is content to work for others, has little ambition, is subjected to passions, lacks an efficient method of self-control and primarily follows their biological programming of self-preservation and self-propagation.

    In the social caste context a Shudra can refer to anyone who is born into a family whose hereditary occupations are service-based:– These include trading, farming, skilled artisans of all sorts, painters, sculptors, musicians, dancers, actors, entertainers, servants, builders, laborers etc. In fact everyone who is not a priest, in the defense industry or in finance. In fact the majority of any society.

    TANTRA was specifically developed by Shudras.There are hundreds of Tantric texts most of which remain untranslated and even unresearched . In the Tantra tradition, there is no varna for the sadhakas. They are classified as Pashu, Veeras and Siddhas, depending on the merits of their sadhana. The Tantric literature is no less vast than the Vedic one. Many great men in this tradition were born into non-Brahmin(Shudra) family. The tentacles of this tradition is widespread in many parts of India. In these communities, the Varnasharama is absent .

    Over the time ,The Vedic and Agamic streams blended and became interwoven through constant interactions with Tantric Siddha equivalent to Vedic Brahmin(One who knows ultimate reality Brahman)

       



    You have misunderstood the concept of Shudratva and are seeing it only in a class context.

    A Shudra is a person who serves others and since everyone of us is a servant to another in some capacity or other we are all Shudras - especially when that service is a livelihood and source of income.

    Even politicians and presidents are public SERVANTS - they are elected by the public to serve the public and therefore they are all Shudras.

    The Veda says:–

    Brd Aranyaka 1:4:13. sa naiva vyabhavat | sa śaudraṃ varnaṃ asrjata pūṣaṇaṃ | iyam vai pūṣā | iyam hīdam sarvaṃ pūṣyati yad idaṃ kiṃ ca ||

    He (Prajapati) created the śūdra order, as Pūṣan. Verily this (earth) is Pūṣan the nourisher, for she nourishes everything that is.

    Then you will remember that in the Puruṣa Sūktam the rishi seer associates the feet of the cosmic person with the earth.

    Pūṣan means “to nurture” or “to nourish”, Pūṣan is an aspect of the Sun which nurtures all living things on the planet - and Pūṣan, like the earth from which we obtain everything we need to survive and flourish are all associated with the Shudra order in society by which society is nourished.

    As a priest, a teacher and a counsellor and a part time nurse I nurture and nourish others so what I am …………………………………………?

    True Brahmins are those who learn, memorise and teach the Veda - all other so-called “Brahmins” are cardboard cutouts according to Manu. So seeing that I have only learnt a few useful Suktas from the Veda and have never memorised the entire Veda nor do I teach Veda, I cannot lay claim to Brahminhood. That would be the ultimate in chicanery.

    there are many gurukulas throughout India today that teach students to memorise the Vedas from the age of 7 or 8

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  • suyash95 1 day ago | +0 points

    India’s subaltern scholars have ignored the spirituality of the subaltern people, while claiming to champion them. This has to do with Marx’ use of Eurocentric categories in his analysis of “religion.” Unfortunately, he, and subsequently the Indian Marxists, blindly applied the conclusions that were based on Abrahamic religions, as being universal to all faiths worldwide. Consequently, most subaltern scholars neither have the interest nor the training to be able to understand that the true transmitters and preservers of adhyatma-vidya were the rishis, siddhas, natha yogis, tantrikas, sadhus and bhakti sants, many of whom were from non-Brahmin and non-Kshyatriya varnas The Brahmin priesthood did preserve oral and written textual works of importance, but in terms of adhyatma-vidya, the prize goes to the renunciant/yogic lineages. Unfortunately, since European religions were, indeed, dominated by elitist interests, the same lens was superimposed on the study of Indic traditions, and remains the academic practice even today.

    [reply]

  • suyash95 1 day ago | +0 points

    Non - Dwijas - Lingayats,Veershaivaites,Kaapalikas,Pashupalikas,Nath,Adinath,Sadhu,Sanyasis,Aghoris , Naga Sadhus ,Tantrics ,Shakts, etc will come under Shudras ,Can all of these be oppressed.

    [reply]

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