Why has god created material system/universe? Vedas

8 points | Post submitted by Miiranarayan 1465 days ago | 5 comments | viewed 2797 times

Why has god created material system/universe?


  • MetaDota1469 days ago | +1 points
    According to the Brahma Sutras, it is for sport; a pastime. And Ramanujacharya's commentary for that sutra: The motive which prompts Brahman--all whose wishes are fulfilled and who is perfect in himself--to the creation of a world comprising all kinds of sentient and non-sentient beings dependent on his volition, is nothing else but sport, play. We see in ordinary life how some great king, ruling this earth with its seven dv?pas, and possessing perfect strength, valour, and so on, has a game at balls, or the like, from no other motive than to amuse himself; hence there is no objection to the view that sport only is the motive prompting Brahman to the creation, sustentation, and destruction of this world which is easily fashioned by his mere will.
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  • ichat1460 days ago | +1 points

    There are questions, and then there are answers - answers, sometimes, that surpass the question, transcend the questioner, and find their places in the Eternity. One such answer is shown below from someone outside the fold of the "Sanatana Dharma" in its traditional sense - Poet Laureate Nazrul Islam:

    খেলিছ এ বিশ্বলয়ে
    বিরাট শিশু আনমনে।
    প্রলয় সৃষ্টি তব পুতুল খেলা
    নিরজনে প্রভু নিরজনে।।
    খেলিছ..

    শূণ্যে মহা আকাশে
    তুমি মগ্ন লীলা বিলাসে
    ভাঙ্গিছ গড়িছ নীতি ক্ষণে ক্ষণে
    নিরজনে প্রভু নিরজনে।।

    তারকা রবি শশী খেলনা তব
    হে উদাসী
    পড়িয়া আছে রাঙা পায়ের কাছে
    রাশি রাশি।

    নিত্য তুমি হে উদার
    সুখে-দুখে অবিকার।
    হাসিছ খেলিছ তুমি আপন সনে
    নিরজনে প্রভু নিরজনে।।

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    • jay1457 days ago | +0 points

      can we have a small translation, please? 

      [reply]

  • veddev1449 days ago | +0 points

    It is a ati-prasna , transcendental question. Within the dream it cant be answered and when awake there is no question.

    It is the starting of Brahmm and Atma-Jignyasa.

    [reply]

  • suyash951448 days ago | +1 points

    All religions try to answer spiritual questions and one of the greatest and most enduring of metaphysical questions is: “Why is there something rather than nothing? Why does the world even exist? If a God created the world then why did he do it?

    The Abrahamic faiths propose that God created the world and humans so that He could be adored and worshiped. So the religious duty and obligation of believers is to acknowledge God and to worship him - not to accept God and not to worship him therefore is the greatest of all sins because we are negating the very purpose of our existence.

    Hinduism rejects this proposition because:-

    • A God who has the power to create this incredible Universe must be all-powerful and limitless.
    • A God who is omnipotent must be perfect.
    • A perfect God would be self-fulfilled and not lack anything - therefore he could not possible have any desires - since a desire arises because of a lack.
    • Since he could create a Universe from nothing he could also fulfill all and any desires that he could theoretically have.

    So it is unlikely that a perfect all-powerful God would need the adoration of humans who live for a few decades on a tiny speck in the vast universe which is 13.8 billion years old and 93 billion light years across.

    So using human metrics and psychology we propose that the only logical reason for a God to create the world is for LĪLĀ which is a spontaneous out-bursting of joy like a dancer dancing or a musician playing music, or an artist painting - it is not being done with any motive or goal but simply for self-expression.

    We also reject the Abrahamic dogma that God created the world from nothing (ex nihilo) - from nothing nothing comes, therefore “creation” must be a process of potentiality transforming into actuality. The substance of the universe - i.e. particles and fields must be a modification of the essence of God. This leads to the doctrine of pan-en-theism.

    Thus we Hindus are not required either to acknowledge the existence of a creator God nor are we compelled to adore and worship him - the required relationship is “BHAJ” which means to share or to participate in the LĪLĀ.

    So these two views (darśanas) are contradictory and irreconcilable.

    Hinduism doesn’t accept that what we call BRAHMAN has any limitations whatsoever unlike the Abrahamanic God. It is like the Quantum Field in which everything has its existence.

    Now how you as an individual relate to that Field, how you describe it or how you visualise it, is entirely up to you and the ways of interacting with that field are also limitless.

    I think this is one of the major differences between the Abrahamic theologies and Hindu theology. They do assert the perfection, omniscience and omnipotence and omni-benevolence of God (but they don’t accept omnipresence) — but then immediately place limitations - God loves this and He hates that, He has his chosen and His unchosen, He is merciful and loving but will reject and torture those who don’t accept him in a specific form or call him by a specific name.

    Hinduism posits a number of relationships (rasa) one can cultivate with God - depending on the individual, whereas for the Abrahamic there is only one acceptable relationship.

    dāsya rasa

    This is the relationship of a servant/master, or subject/King and is based on the emotions of awe and reverence and self-basement - this is the only relationship favoured in mainstream Islam and Christianity.

    śānta–rasa

    This is an appreciation of God in terms of His greatness, omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence and omni-benevolence. A relationship based on peace and tranquil confidence that one is already a moiety of the Divine and non-separate from Him/Her/It.

    sakhya rasa

    This is a relationship in which the Divine is treated as an intimate friend with whom one plays, gambols about with, teases and jokes with.

    vātsalya rasa

    This is a relationship of tender intimacy in which one treats God/ess as one’s child - one bathes the Icon of the chosen deity, feeds, clothes and nurtures and entertains him/her.

    mādhurya rasa

    This is considered to be the highest relationship in which one treats God as the lover/beloved. This is the height of spiritual awakening which was achieved by the Christian Mystics, the Jewish Kabalists and the Muslim Sufis, the Nayanars, the Alwārs and all the poet mystics of India - their poems all celebrate the intimate and personal experience of ecstatic union with God as the beloved and the anguish and pinning in separation from him.

    The famous devotees of the epics and Purāṇas exemplify these types of relationships.

    1. Prithu Maharaja — śānta-rasa
    2. Hanuman — dāsya-rasa
    3. Arjuna — sakhya-rasa
    4. Yashoda — vātsalya-rasa
    5. Gopis — mādhurya-rasa.

    And Hinduism also accepts a more controversial relationship of enmity (śatrutva). And this is a huge departure from the Abrahamics.

    Almost all the “demons” that fight God in anger and enmity are also immediately Liberated - like Sisupāla, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyākṣa and many others.

    The reasoning behind this is that the opposite of love is not hatred but indifference. Hatred is just a negative form of love - what is common to both is the constant thought flow directed towards of object of one’s love or hate. Sisupala for example thought of Krishna day and night and every moment was taken up thinking negatively about him - this constituted intense “negative devotion” which was rewarded with Liberation. The principle is that we become what we contemplate upon and seeing that God is beyond the binary of positive and negative - any prolonged and intense contemplation upon Him has the same end result.

     

    Let us Take Eg of Popular Muslim Question - If Muslims can worship without idols, then why can't Hindus do the same?

    indus don’t HAVE to worship anything since we have been gracefully spared any commandments from on high!! We can commune with the Divine as we please without compulsion. We have a far more informal and intimate association with the Lord or lady of the Universe treating Him/Her as our most intimate lover and friend! He/She doesn’t demand from us any worship and gracefully accepts whatever worship we care to offer.

    We can recite mantras with the use of rosaries - just like Muslims and Catholics.

    We can meditate like the Buddhists and Taoists

    We can dance like the dervishes

    We can sing like the gospel choirs

    We can prostrate and fast like Muslims

    We can do all of these or none of these.

    The purpose of idols or rather ICONS to be less offensive, is simply to focus the mind.

    Our exterior ritual technology consists of 3 basic instruments:—

    1. yantra — geometrical designs
    2. mantras — sacred texts chanted aloud
    3. mūrti — icons of various sorts

    Interior spiritual practice is visualization in meditation which is considered the highest of all practices.



    Hinduism, like the jungle from which it originated, is extremely complex and there are no clear paths - one has to hack one’s way through the machete/sword of viveka (discrimination). This is what makes Hinduism so exciting - it is always an adventure like an Indiana Jones movie - you never know what you may discover!

    There is not a single account of “creation” in Hinduism like the desert religions deriving from the nomad Abraham - an account given by the Creator Himself!!

    There are 3 major textual sources for the speculation on origination and cosmogony. And yes indeed, speculation it is, because we cannot possibly know exactly what, when and why there is something rather than nothing! And to base an entire belief system on the creation speculation of primitive bronze age tribes is problematic.

    The purpose of Cosmogony in Hinduism is to provide a framework for self orientation, adaptation and action.

    The several accounts of cosmogony are found in the Vedas, Puranas and Tantras. Most of them overlap with some sectarian and philosophical variations but the core structure is the same.

    The first and most celebrated account is found in the Rik Veda in the Hymn of Creation — Nasadiya Sukta of which there are several beautiful renditions on youtube.

    rig veda hymn of creation in sanskrit

    Then we also have the famous Purusha Sukta which is one of the most poplar hymns of the Veda - said to be its essence and is still chanted at almost every Hindu celebration.

    A short and succinct account comes from the Krishna Yajur Veda - Taittiriya Upanishad.

    'He who knows Brahman, which is (the space-time-thought continuum), which is conscious, which is devoid of limitation as hidden in the depth (of the heart of every sentient being), as well as in the highest regions of space, he enjoys all blessings, and is at one with the omniscient Brahman.'

    From that Self (Brahman) sprang space (akāśa, that through which we hear); from ākāśa – air (that through which we hear and feel); from air fire (that through which we hear, feel, and see); from fire water (that through which we hear, feel, see, and taste); from water earth (that through which we hear, feel, see, taste, and smell). From earth herbs, from herbs food, from food seed, from seed humankind. Humankind (and likewise ALL creatures) thus consists of the essence of food.

    So the discerning reader with a sharp analytical intellect will note that there is no ‘creation’ as such, there is an evolution from subtle to gross, a ‘projection’ of discernable time and space from consciousness. This process is known in Sanskrit as sṛṣṭhi - a projection or ejaculation as it were, and NOT a creation from nothing.

    In the same text the guru in conversation with his disciple, gives another variation of the same in a ‘personal’ format:–

    He who thinks of the Brahman (the Ground of Being) as non-existant, becomes non-existant. He who knows the Brahman as existing, him we know himself as existing.' The localized embodied Self (ātman) consisting of bliss is the same as that of the former (Brahman).

    Thereupon follow the questions of the pupil:

    'Does any one who knows not, after he has departed this life, ever go to that world ? Or does he who knows, after he has departed, go to that world?'

    The answer is: He (Brahman) wished, I am ONE may I be many, may I extend and expand. He entered into a meditative state. After he had thus meditated, he projected all, whatever there is. Having projected (the Universe), he entered into it. Having entered it, he became both sat (the manifest) and tyat (the unmanifest), defined and undefined, supported and not supported, sentient and insentient, real and unreal. The Ultimate Truth (Satya) became all this whatsoever, and therefore the wise call it (the Brahman) Satya (the True).

    Now even the average western educated reader would have to really ponder upon this and no doubt many of you gentle readers would be scratching your heads in perplexity at this idea which is technically called pan-en-theism - what to speak of the common pedestrians out there - hurrying about their busy lives!

    So for them simple folk, the authors of the Puranas, basing themselves on the impersonal Vedic account, produced very personal mythical stories about the creation of the world - of Vishnu lying upon the ocean of cosmic time - producing Brahmā the creator god from a lotus in his navel. Of Brahmā then thinking the universe up in his head and projecting into being - etc. etc. etc. Or Shiva Nataraja producing the Universe through Dance.

    And then for the really advanced spiritual aspirants, the Tantras introduce even more esoteric concepts about cosmogony through Sound (śabda) and the centrality of the Feminine (vide Lakshmi Tantra.) This concept of Sonic Cosmogony is also based on the Veda which declares that everything arose from the sound of OM.

    So in summary — no one created the world/Universe in Hinduism.


    Creation of Man i.e. Adam is a Abrahamic concept.

    Male, female and neuter are the nature of all biological beings and humankind is part and parcel of biological nature. In Hinduism we never ask why did God create human-kind? (as if we are the sole purpose of creation as in the Abrahamic religions!), the question re-framed should be rather “why did God create the universe?”

    Now the verb “create” is problematic for us as is the noun “God.”

    According to Hindu logic creation refers to the making of something from raw materials. One cannot create something from nothing! It is a logical impossibility!

    So for a Supreme Person to have created a real world, there are only two options:–

    a. the raw materials must have been in existence prior to the creative act - which begs the question - who created them? OR

    b. the world is not at all real in a material sense but is an illusion - like a mirage.

    How do the Abrahamics reconcile these two problems? Either the world is real or it is an illusion.

    Now we Hindus have a different take. We believe in a Supreme Consciousness (Brahman) that is eternal and all-pervading. This Consciousness projects the universe (sṛṣṭi) into being from Its very own Self. The classical example used is of a spider that builds its web from its own substance (technically known as ūrṇanābhi nyāya).

    In a more scientific sense the Universe is comprised of quantum matter/energy (śakti). The energy is coterminous with consciousness - consciousness from a Hindu point of view is essential to the universe.

    Why did the Universe emerge at all? According to Hinduism it is all līlā — the play of the Divine.


    The purpose of creation is LILA - the Play of the Divine. God, being perfect and self-fulfilled cannot possibly have a reason or purpose for creation. If He/She/It does have purpose then the Divine perfection is compromised. Creation of something is only required if that thing is lacking in oneself. Some would say that God created the Universe for self-glorification and so that he could be adored by humankind - what does this say about his lack of self-esteem?

    The other theories of why an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God would create an imperfect universe only has meaning in a geocentric universe - where mankind is the centre of creation. In a Hubble perspective (Home) they are meaningless.

    The earth is the size of a grain of sand on all the combined beaches of the world! Why on earth would the Divine Source of this unbelievably and inconceivably vast universe require earthlings who are only 100,000 years in existence on a temporary grain of sand want, need or require our, worship, adoration and validation?

    So Hinduism concludes that there is only one possible reason for the existence of the Universe - Divine Play. When one dances or plays - there is no purpose, goal or aim to be achieved there is just self-satisfaction, self-pleasure. This is illustrated by the dance of Lord Shiva as naṭarāja - the dance of creation, preservation and destruction - it has its similitude in the dance of the atom.

    The vast cosmos is dancing and vibrating to the tune of the cosmic drum (ḍamaru).

    [image]

    The Veda says:–

    pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate |
    pūrṇasya pūrṇamādāya pūrṇamevāvaśiṣyate ||

    Om! That is complete (Brahman/God), and this (universe) is complete.
    The complete proceeds from the complete.
    (Then) taking the complete (universe) from the complete (Brahman),
    the complete (Brahman) alone remains. 


    Hindu philosophy doesn’t hold with “creation” as in the Abrahamic faiths in a linear sense.

    Hinduism teaches that the Universe is a PROJECTION into being of consciousness, space-time. This process of projection is called sriṣṭhi which means; projection, ejaculation, a bursting forth from an original singularity known as a bindu. The universe expands and then contracts back into the original bindu. The universe is thus pulsating ad infinitum.

    In Vedanta there are maxims or axioms that are used to illustrate stuff, the one used for Sriṣṭhi is:–

    ūrṇābhi nyāya — The spider brings forth the thread from its mouth to weave its web and withdraws it again into its mouth. But the thread arises from its own body and is one with it. Even so this world is projected forth by Brahman and then again withdrawn by Brahman into Brahman. But the world is nothing but the Being of Brahman only appearing. This shows that all is Brahman alone in reality.

    Creationism also goes hand in hand with a young Earth theory - the world having been created by God some 6000 years ago (according to fundamental Abrahamics). Hinduism teaches that the world is billions of years old.

    So creationism should not be introduced into a school curriculum since traditional Hindu teachings are more compatible with science.

    This also reflects in the Concept of God diference between Dharmic n Abrahamanic 

    From The Hindu perspective there are two aspects of this question:–

    What is God? and Who is God?

    (“God” is a troublesome noun and is not the exact equivalent of any Sanskrit term.)

    What is normally translated as “God” is BRAHMAN, which is best translated by the English word “Godhead” and refers to the abstract Universal, Cosmic Absolute.

    This idea is best explored through scientific cosmological concepts. The earth is the size of a grain of sand on all the combined beaches of the world. The Universe is VAST containing trillions of galaxies. BRAHMAN comes from the root which means “vastness”, “extensive”, “expansive” — so BRAHMAN refers to the entire Universe of quantum gravity and everything in it - which we believe to be pervaded by consciousness. So BRAHMAN is the physical universe of quantum gravity as well as the consciousness which pervades every particle.

    This is the objective view – answering to “what is God”.

    The question “who is God” is purely subjective and the Hindu answer to that is — “whoever you want him/her/it to be”.

    How you personally perceive or contemplate or think about the Absolute is entirely up to you. Just as how you wish to view the vastness of time-space/quantum gravity - is also your choice.

    So in Hinduism there is no “thought control” when it comes to thinking about that which is technically speaking beyond the capacity of the human mind to conceive or comprehend.

    If you google Universe - images you will find plenty of images upon which to focus your mind in meditation of the Impersonal Divine.

    [image]

    If you prefer more personal images then we have dozens which you can choose from. The iconic forms of both Vishnu and Shiva have cosmic connotations. Vishnu lies upon the Ocean of space-time and Shiva is the dancer in every particle and wave.

    [image]

    [main-qimg-48c74027460e7581023a461329c93857]



    Reason for creation in Advaita Vedanta? Why did Brahman create the Universe?

    the answer is one word LĪLA - which means sport, play, fun.

    Comparative theories are useful in assessing the value of this particular cosmogenic proposition.

    In the monotheistic religions God creates the world for his own glorification, and creates mankind to obey, worship and serve him and to dwell happily with him in heaven for eternity. This proposition only makes sense from a geocentric point of view where the stars are decorative lights in the canopy of heaven.

    Vedānta rejects this theory on the assumption that God is Perfect. (pūrṇam adaḥ purṇam idam etc.) A perfect being is self-fulfilled and therefore can have no “desires” — having desires means we desire those things or experiences which we are lacking in ourselves. Even a human being is exhorted to transcend self-centered desires which are described in the Gīta as the enemy to be vanquished and the cause of all suffering.

    So how could a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Being possibly have any desires whatsoever? Let alone a self-referent desire for His own glorification! When one sees the vastness of the Universe, it becomes even more ludicrous that such a Being would be glorified by a bunch of tiny, puny creatures on this temporary and totally insignificant speck of dust called earth!

     

     

    So the Hindu theory is that Brahman overflowing with immense joy (ānanda) bursts forth like a dancer (naṭarāja) and dances - not for any objective but out of pure exuberance and personal expression. Play is engaged in for its own sake and not for achieving goals - like dance and music which are ends in themselves.

    In the Vedas Prajāpati contemplates and says to himself “eko’ham bahusyām” — I am ONE only, let me become many — and so projects the manifold universe into being for the sake of Divine Play - Līla.

    So there is no purpose to life - it just IS. There is no “divine plan” just the dance of life - good and bad, creation and destruction, atoms and planets and galaxies all spinning and alternating in the rhythm of timelessness. A Divine “Plan” is conceptualized in a universe which has trajectory and time is linear. A “plan’ conceived on at a point in time and flowing towards a culmination in time.

    The Hindu concept of time is cyclical, like the motion of the planets, the Universe is a pulsating universe, projection (sṛṣthi) and withdrawal (pralaya) - alternating – the eternal Play of the Divine.

    [image]

    Quest - it doesn’t touch the aspect of suffering. Why would perfect engage in a dance that has SO MUCH horrific suffering?

    Response -Its time relative. What is a mosquito bite to your life-time of 100 years? A perfect Being is Eternal, so from an absolute perspective all suffering is just a a momentary tic. From our limited perspective suffering is enormous, tragic and prolonged.

    Question - The omnipotent, omniscient Brahman chose to be many for just having fun. The problem is that those ‘many’ are not aware that they are the God. This leads to bondage and suffering. If he had blessed each one of us with that knowledge of the self we all would be having an equal amount of fun now. But that unfortunately isn’t the case. This is the aspect of creation that I simply don’t understand. If the samsara is full of agony, why did the God create it in the first place?

    Rsponse - This is the great and unanswerable question known as ATI-PRASHNA — how did we fall from grace? The Bible addresses this question through the myth of Adam and Eve and attribute The Fall to Adam’s disobedience. The Veda simply says that Prajāpati wished to become many to experience - eko’haṁ bahu syāma - so desire arose in the beginning (Rik Veda) it is DESIRE that drives our cycles of birth and rebirth. So we are all sparks of Brahman having a human experience - as long as we identify with that role we are bound in samsara. The ultimate goal is to diminish the identification - all very complex and needs lots of meditation (dhyana) to resolve.

    Samsara is not full of agony, Samsara just IS - from our personal perspective we experience suffering (dukha) because of our desires and attachments - let go and surrender to the dance and your life will become blissful like all the great and renounced sages. Watch the link of the Universe and then you will see that asking why? is fruitless and has no answer. This is why all Indian philosophical systems start with YOU and your pursuit of happiness. What are the causes of dukha and how do we overcome it. Asking why and who will not improve your situation any.

    Play is play is play - it is the principle of play - a joyous, spontaneous activity without objective, aim, goal or plan. And all of cosmogony is speculation. Even the Big Bang - as you well know in science a theory stands until it is displaced by a better one that is more comprehensive. 

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