Addressing all Controversial Issues regarding HINDUISM Hindu-Phobia and Hindu-Hatred

2 points | Post submitted by suyash95 6 days ago | 3 comments | viewed 78 times

Controversial Issues - like Devadasi , Shudra not allowed to read Vedas ,Non-Brahmin not allowed into Sanctum Santorum etc

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  • suyash95 6 days ago | +0 points

    What is it like being a Hindu Shudra?

    It is fantastic - we are the majority 90% and our great good fortune is that we are free from all the onerous obligations, and tyrannical rules and regulations that the Dvijas (“Twice-born” - those who have received the sacrament of upanayana) are compelled to follow.

    na śūdre pātakam kiñcin na tasya saṁskāram arhati |

    nāsya adhikāro dharme’sti na ca dharmāt pratiṣedhanam ||

    A Sudra cannot commit an offence, causing loss of caste (pātaka), and he is not required to undergo the (forty obligatory) sacraments; he has no obligation to (fulfil) the sacred ritual law (of the dvijas) but there is no objection to his following all the ethical principles and practices of the Dharma. (Manu 10:126)

    So we are free to eat and drink and enjoy as we please as long as we apply the ethical principles(Dharma). We do not have to offer daily prayers and perform spiritual tasks, we do not have to observe all the rules of purity and traditional social distancing or to study and memorise sacred texts. So in short we have complete religious freedom. (Social freedom is circumscribed by the family and community.)

    Those who undergo the initiation ceremony known as upanayana are obligated to an enormous set of rules and regulations and onerous duties and responsibilities - the non-performance of which generate DEMERIT and cases one to “fall” pātaka.

    So we Sūdras can emulate whatever we want of the higher spiritual practices and disciplines and thereby gain MERIT. But by non-performance or lapsed performance we obtain no demerit.

    dharma ipsavas tu dharmajñāḥ satāṁ vṛttam anuṣṭhitāḥ |

    mantra varjyaṁ na duṣyanti praśaṁsāṁ prāpnuvanti ca ||

    (Sudras) who are desirous to gain merit, and study the Dharma, commit no sin, but gain praise, if they follow the practices of the virtuous - without reciting Vedic mantras. (Manu 10:127)

    In fact we are entitled to the same respect as the Dvijas

    śūdre karmabhiḥ śucibhir devī śuddhātmā vijitendriyaḥ |

    śūdro-pi dvijavat sevya iti brahmābravīt svayam ||

    Even a sudra O Devi that has purified himself by good deeds and has subjugated his senses should be served like a twice-born person, this has been declared by Brahma himself. (M.B. Anusasana Parva 143:48)

    We are the mainstay of society and without us society would collapse. At the moment we are the health-care workers that are putting our lives in danger in order to keep you all alive.

    So being a Sudra is the most laudable status because our privilege is to nurture the society and the environment.

    sa naiva vyabhavat | sa śaudraṃ varnaṃ asrjata pūṣaṇaṃ | iyam vai pūṣā | iyam hīdam sarvaṃ pūṣyati yad idaṃ kiṃ ca || (Brd Aranyaka 1:4:13. )

    He did not flourish, so he created the śūdra order as Pūṣan. Verily this (earth) is Pūṣan the nourisher, for she nourishes everything that is.

    Explanation. Pūṣa is the nourishing aspect of the Sun - the function of nourishing is also associated with the earth so here the Sūdra is identified both with the Sun and the Earth. In the famous Puruṣa Sūkta the Sūdra order represents the feet of society envisaged as a corporate group or one body. In the context of this verse Prajāpati is trying to create the world but nothing works until he creates the Sūdras.

    Workers of the world unite! Hanuman is the patron deity of gyms and body builders.

    Why does Manusmriti ask lead to be melted and poured into the ears of lower caste people even if they hear the Vedas accidentally?

    Now if a Sudra listens intentionally to the recitation of the Veda, his ears shall be filled with molten tin or lac. If he recites Vedic texts, his tongue shall be cut out, and if he remembers them, his body shall be split in two. Gautama 12: 4-6

    This verse is probably an interpolation from some caste-nazi because there is no record or evidence that this punishment was ever carried out by any ruler at any time. And during the temple festivals the Vedas were always chanted in front of all castes - even the lowest, from the time the first temples were built - in South India at least.

    In the Panchartra Agama - Isvara Samhita – it states that every temple festival must include all four varnas and the procession through the streets is to be accompanied by Vedic chanting and of course courtesans dancing. The palanquin of the deity is always carried by Sudras who walk in front of the Veda chanting Brahmins.

    Catur vedamayod-ghoṣaiḥ stotra ghoṣa samanvitaiḥ || I.S. 10:363

    [The procession] must be accompanied by the chanting of the Vedas & Prabandhas [Tamil Vedas].

    So for at least the past 1000 years every temple festival in South India has included the public chanting of the Vedas - this is proven by the fact that Rāmānujācarya himself instituted the Pañcarātra procedures in all the major Vaishnava temples bar a few.

    There is also an annual festival called the Adhyayanotsava in Vishnu Temples of the South where a pavilion is setup and the public chanting of the Vedas takes place during the day and the Prabandha (Tamil Vedas) are chanted at night.

    So the historical, epigraphical and traditional customs and procedures would indicate that this notorious verse of Gautama’s is propaganda only.

    Why were Shudras not permitted to read the Vedas?

    Always remember saying things doesnot means doing things .This was just an opinion .Shudras were not (past tense) permitted to read the Vedas for a variety of reasons - lack of literacy and time is one major obstacle.

    Most folks today see the ancient world retroactively through the lens of their current situation instead of doing a mental time-travel thing and putting themselves back in time.

    Life spans were short in them days (40 - 50 years was very old) — and the imperative for most people was to learn a trade and get to work, get married at puberty - have as many kids as possible because 1/3rd of them would die before their first birthday.

    The only way to get an education was to learn the trade of your father and your community.

    To study one Veda it took a full-time study of 12 years ending at age 21. Most commoners were parents of numerous children by then.

    BUT there was a major revolution in 1439 when a German guy invented a printing press - not long after, printed books began appearing in India and in a flash we arrive at the 21st century when all the Vedas and allied literature is now IN PRINT!

    But people always long and pine for the forbidden fruits - we always want what others have (ghar ki murgi dahl barabar!) but when they get access they are deeply disappointed. The same knowledge that is found in the Vedas was always available to Sudras and women through the stories and myths of the Puranas.

    So all of you Quorans who are still pining to study the Vedas they are available on in English for study from here. Rig Veda Index - when you have finished reading Mandala #1 please flick me an email to let me know how you went.

    Yajur Veda with Sanskrit can be had here Taittiriya Samhita, Brahmana, Aranyaka etc.

    White Yajur Veda with devanagari and English can be had from here - White Yajur-Veda: Vajasaneyi-Samhita (Madhyandina): Frame

    Hindi versions can be found here Buy Rare and Best Selling Books in Hindi from Exotic India.

    Happy study!

    What is Hinduism without a caste system?

    The caste issue is a peculiarly INDIAN social problem, not a HINDU one - it occupies more space on Quora than any other topic apart from the obsession of some people with idolatry.

    There are 10′s of millions of Hindus outside of India that live a fulsome caste-free life. Vedanta - the philosophy of Hinduism - is taught and practiced the world over without any reference to caste-class, race or gender.

    So Hinduism can thrive very well without this outdated attempt at social engineering - in a free and equitable social setting.

    The core of the problem is that Indians themselves are totally confused and misinformed about the caste-system and retain prejudice and practice discrimination on a social basis, not religious. Not one Hindu can give a cogently spiritual reason why they are prejudiced against other castes or give a logical justification why they are discriminating against another person on the basis of their name.

    SJW’s are constantly throwing Manu around and blaming his 2500 year old text for the Indian social evils of caste discrimination and oppression - yet that very same text deconstructs the entire system as well, and renders all the SJW arguments vacuous and all practice of caste-discrimination as mindless prejudice.

    Now let me explain very simply - please pay attention. The four castes are divided into two categories:–

    Dvijas (twice-born) i.e. Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas.

    Non-Dvijas — Commoners i.e. Sudras.

    The Dvijas have privilege, but that privilege is contingent upon them fulfilling three conditional duties which are:–

    1. Undergoing Upanayana (Sacred thread) ceremony at the right time. Brahmins at age 8, Kshatriyas at 11 and Vaishyas at age 12 (Manu 2:36)
    2. Performing Sandhya Vandana twice a day - morning and evening for the rest of their lives.
    3. Veda-adhyayana – Studying and memorising a portion of the Vedas during a period of studentship under a guru.

    If these three conditions are not fulfilled they LOSE ALL PRIVILEGE of being a dvija and are demoted to Vrātya status - which is technically an expulsion from caste.

    The proof texts are;–

    ata ūrdhvaṁ trayo 'py ete yathākālam asaṁskṛtāḥ | sāvitrīpatitā vrātyā bhavanty ārya-vigarhitāḥ ||

    After those (periods - age 8 for Brahmins, 11 for kshatriyas and 12 for vaishyas, men of) these three (castes) who have not received the sacrament of Upanayana at the proper time, become Vrātyas (outcasts), excluded from the Savitri (initiation and access to education) and are despised by the Aryans (loss of all privilege). (Manu 2:39.)

    na-etair apūtair vidhivad āpady api hi karhi cit | brāhmān yaunāṁś ca sambandhān na-ācared brāhmaṇaḥ saha || 40 ||

    With such men, who have not been purified according to the rule, let no Brahmana ever, even in times of distress, form a connection either through the Veda (education) or by marriage. (Manu 2:40.)

    na tiṣṭhati tu yaḥ pūrvāṁ na-upāste yaś ca paścimām | sa śūdravad bahiṣkāryaḥ sarvasmād dvija-karmaṇaḥ ||

    But he who does not (perform Sandhya Vandana) standing in the morning, nor sitting in the evening, shall be excluded, like a Sudra, from all the duties and privileges of a Dvija. (Manu 2:103.)


    So in fact the vast majority of Kshatriyas and Vaishyas have long ago abandoned their three obligations and therefore have lost all Dvija privilege and are Sudras and have been so for hundreds of generations already.

    The majority of Brahmins still undergo the Upanayana ceremony as a social rite of passage but do not perform Sandhya or study any Veda - so they are all Vrātyas - outcastes - with whom genuine Vedic brahmins are forbidden to have any social intercourse or to marry according to Manu. (They try to compromise by doing a yearly atonement ceremony known as Upakarma - to retain some semblance of Brahminhood - that too is only pro forma and would not satisfy the cranky old Manu.)


    99% of Hindus are Sudras and the only real Brahmins are those who are doing their daily Sandhya and are actively engaged in Veda Study.

    So according to none other than Manu - all pretence at caste-privilege and discrimination is a farce and a charade since we are ALL SUDRAS and so any consideration of social varna is redundant - all discrimination should stop immediately since we are all equal!

    Hence we can conclude that this caste-shambles is NOT a Hindu matter; it is an Indian one based on disinformation and delusion.

    Why are non-Brahmins not allowed inside the temple sanctum?

    No one is allowed into the temple sanctum except the consecrate priests. Brahmins or non-brahmins.

    The temple priests (archakas) undergo certain elaborate mandala dikshas after which they are permitted access to the sanctum.

    Some temples the are built according to Sthapatya Ved? The innermost center of a building is thought to be as if the hollow center of one’s spinal cord, the sushumna and to be kept pure and silent. No wonder only a silent mind would be allowed into such a sanctum filled with being. There is no such restrictions in North India. Even we can touch the deity and offer pooja by himself.there are two types of temples. Some are called Dhuli Dharshana, meaning they are created for anyone to touch them and have a relation with the deity on a physical level. Not all temples are exactly the same. Each temple is built for a different purpose. So knowing the significance via Sthalapurana will help what is the purpose of this instrument (temple).

    Who were the devdasi's in ancient India?

    With all due respect to prof Gabriela Nitti’s academic qualifications she is completely prejudiced and factually wrong in her response.

    The Devadasis in Ancient India were dancing girls and ladies attached to the great temples of the South mainly. The institution was not started due to a conspiracy between the kings and priests and it was not prostitution. In the 18th and 19th century Raj any form of sexual liberation was considered to be “prostitution” by the British.

    All the ancient Agamas mention the institution and glorify the women involved. And in the ancient manuscripts, seven classes of Deva-dasis are mentioned, viz.,

    (1) Datta, or one who gives herself voluntary as a gift to a temple;

    (2) Vikrita, or one who sells herself for the same purpose;

    (3) Bhritya, or one who offers herself as a temple servant for the upkeep of her family;

    (4) Bhakta, or one who joins a temple out of devotion to serve the deity;

    (5) Hrita, or one who is enticed away, and presented to a temple;

    (6) Alankara, or one who, being well trained in her profession of dancing and singing and music and profusely decked with gold ornaments, is presented to a temple by kings and noblemen;

    (7) Rudraganika or Gopika, who receives regular wages from a temple, and are employed to sing and dance but not resident in the temple compound.

    They were women who joined the temple and were highly educated in the arts - acting, singing, dancing and story-telling. They studied the Natya-śāstras and Puranas and would enact stories from them during the temple festivals. They lived in a special compound with the temple precincts - with board and lodging, were educated for free and their clothes, costumes, and jewellery were given by the temple - so why on earth would they have to prostitute themselves?

    Their daily duties would include dancing and singing during the various pūjā sessions and would lead the procession of the deity and the chariot festivals etcetera.

    They were exactly like the Japanese Geishas, well-educated and independent women who, by the fact of being married to the deity, nitya-sumaṅgalis - women were were perpetually auspicious and would never become widows.

    In addition to their temple duties they were free to visit and perform in the homes of those who could afford their services during festivities and celebrations like marriages. Remember - they were the “Bollywood” performers, artistes and celebrities before movies were even invented.

    They were also sexually liberated and could take “patrons” or “lovers” if they so chose. Many of them were very wealthy and highly respected at a time when women had no access to education and few career prospects. Their children would also be educated as musicians and stage artists.

    The modern version is a total parody and corruption of the noble system and indeed is common prostitution and deplorable sex trafficking with a thin veneer of sacrality and should rightly be condemned. But this difference needs to be pointed out. It is a scurrilous accusation to say that this form of prostitution is “blessed” by the Hindu religion.

    Maybe you should read this book - Wives of the God-King - Interviews with the last of the Devadasis of Puri.

    When next you watch a Bharata Nathyam or Kuchipudi or Odishi dance performance think of the Devadasis - this is their art form. Think of the time and effort and training that goes into producing a skilled and talented classical dancer. This was an art form which was nearly lost when the British expelled them from the temples and then they had to became prostitutes to support themselves.

    Did you ever hear of the Devadasis of the 18th and 19th century campaigning for their own liberation? Did they consider themselves oppressed and exploited?

    • suyash95 4 days ago | +0 points

      Why Were Shudras not allowed to read VEDAS ?

      This was just an opinion of person at that time,not actual thing. Buy and try to read them, U will get the point .They are too big and Boring.

      Vedic Purohits r traditionally labelled as Brahmins, To become vedic purohits one must study in veda patshalas, and this can vary from place to place.Some pathshalas may have give admission solely on based on birth n others r open for everyone who want to enroll. When we compare our current modern world with old,ancient world,we should understand time,place,context.the conditions r vastly different.Learning one single Vedas required a time period of 12 years.n a strict observance of rules .very few people were inclined for this. There was no printing Press to book in large numbers.

      Writing was only developed in India in about 300 - 200 BCE. The entire sacred literature - i.e. Vedas had been transmitted orally for thousands of years before then. The primary function of the Brahmins was to learn the Vedas by heart and to transmit them to their disciples in an unbroken and perfect succession. So they were like walking libraries containing the entire culture in their heads.

      In order to be the custodians and living vehicles of the Vedas they had heavy responsibilities and duties imposed on them

      As national cultural treasures they were to be protected and given special privileges.

      If they neglected the study of the Vedas they were to be deprived of their privileges and treated as commoners.

  • suyash95 4 days ago | +0 points

    Who were referred as Shudras in India? How they were Casted?

    In a Hindu spiritual context every one who has not been initiated (upanayana) and is not observing the disciplines and protocols of an initiate (dvija) is a Shudra. That’s about 98% of the Hindu population.

    Everyone is born a Shudra (there is no caste by birth!!!) and it is through initiation alone (dikṣa) that one acquires the status of “twice-born”, but having acquired this status, one is also subjected to rules, regulations and rituals which one must observe perpetually for the rest of one’s life in order to retain that status. Any lapse in observance requires restoration and rectification (prāyaścitta).

    A Shudra on the other hand, has no ritual obligations and is free to eat, drink and do as he/she pleases, as long as the general code of practice (loka-dharma) is adhered to which is:–

    1. striving for contentment
    2. practicing compassion and forgiveness
    3. striving for self-control
    4. truthfulness
    5. abstention from anger and violence
    6. abstention from dishonesty, stealing and cheating
    7. observing physical, and striving for mental purity
    8. monogamy - avoiding all sexual misconduct
    9. pursuit of knowledge [concerning the world]
    10. pursuit of wisdom [concerning the Ultimate Reality]

    This is the highest moral code applicable to every society and all humankind. One is assured of spiritual progress and the Divine Grace if one follows this code (Manu 7;92) regardless of one's theological or philosophical convictions or lack thereof.

    In the astrological context, which determines a person’s character, everyone born under the rising signs (lagna) of Gemini, Libra and Aquarius is characterized as Shudra. A Shudra in this context is one who is content to work for others, has little ambition, is subjected to passions, lacks an efficient method of self-control and primarily follows their biological programming of self-preservation and self-propagation.

    In the social caste context a Shudra can refer to anyone who is born into a family whose hereditary occupations are service-based:– These include trading, farming, skilled artisans of all sorts, painters, sculptors, musicians, dancers, actors, entertainers, servants, builders, laborers etc. In fact everyone who is not a priest, in the defense industry or in finance. In fact the majority of any society.

    TANTRA was specifically developed by Shudras.There are hundreds of Tantric texts most of which remain untranslated and even unresearched . In the Tantra tradition, there is no varna for the sadhakas. They are classified as Pashu, Veeras and Siddhas, depending on the merits of their sadhana. The Tantric literature is no less vast than the Vedic one. Many great men in this tradition were born into non-Brahmin(Shudra) family. The tentacles of this tradition is widespread in many parts of India. In these communities, the Varnasharama is absent .

    Over the time ,The Vedic and Agamic streams blended and became interwoven through constant interactions with Tantric Siddha equivalent to Vedic Brahmin(One who knows ultimate reality Brahman)


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